Pistols versus The Dolls

 Home >> Punk Bands >> The New York Dolls >> Pistols V The Dolls 

Paul Cook "There's still a lot of talk that New York started the punk scene and we ripped them off, or some bullshit. People think we were influenced by it. But we weren't The track was ultimately a put down of that scene. We thought we could do it better and we did." 

Sleeve notes to Kiss This

Johnny Rotten " the New York Scene...the mythology of it became unbearable. The song is a reaction to that...Everything that came out of there was poetry based and too arty. These people were older than us and more old-fashioned attitudes"

Glam was essentially dispensable fun; it was vacant and directionless. All image and no substance. Ok maybe sexually subversive but not a lot more. The New York Dolls suffered too from this and more. Yeah they were rock'n'roll in spades, short snappy songs to react against the boring farce music had become and yeah their lyrics had attitude but hell they were  too ugly to be pin ups, too wasted to be effective, controversial yes but hell barbarians at the gate nahhh. More like the cast of Prisoner in Cell Block H and ultimately disposable. Unlike the UK the media and general public in the USA weren't shocked...they never had a manager like Malcy boy pulling the strings and when they did they never understood the reasoning . You can't argue with their influence tho..... from the American punks to the the first wave of British punk they were the reference point.

More than  that, the link with Malcolm McClaren is obvious as their manager for a short but undistinguished period of time. The Dolls were the first band  that met his expectations of rebel rock. His first attempt to dress such a band was not a qualified success not helped by them being on their last legs with drug wastage.  After first unsuccessfully attempting to get Sylvan then Richard Hell  to come to the UK and   form a band , he instead took some of the sartorial ideas of the latter and the guitar of the former  - the famous white Gibson Les Paul -  ended up in Steve Jones's hands . Steve idolized Thunders and aped and copied his moves. CLOSENESS IN  music ??? some parallels but not  a lot. The Pistols never covered any Dolls songs...if they had been that big an influence surely something would be there. Both bands combined outrageous behavior with outrageous clothes but God the Pistols just looked so cool...hell you could start a revolution just with the clothes alone. We wanted to look like them not Lily Savage !!!!

However what sets them apart is quite simply Johnny Rotten, Forget the current view of the Pistols as heavy metal pub rock. Rotten created the lyrics to counterpoint the greatest muthaf***in racket ever, where lyrics and sledgehammer riffs and fashion are focused to laser beam accuracy...There is nothing that comes close to God Save The Queen for lyrics riff and potency and real danger.  Sure the Dolls were rock'n'roll but the Pistols were in the words of Eddie Cochran ....Something Else. Comparisons are futile. UK punk certainly owes something to the Dolls but as we have seen it owes something to a lot of things. The point is it added something else to make it its own. Would the Pistols have existed without the Dolls ...quite probably...and then again ....you decide...we're lucky to have them both.

Quotes

'The Sex Pistols were identical to the New York Dolls...and they were identical in terms of their actions' Macolm McLaren. 'Please Kill Me'

'And I just got into that fucking album of theirs! I thought it was great, just the rawness of it. And y'know Thunders guitar was what I really dug at the time' Steve Jones Spiral Scratch  Aug 1990

Musicians Wanted 'Decadent 3rd generation rock'n'roll image essential. New York Dolls Style.' Melody Maker Advert. Mick Jones/Tony James London SS

Wanted' Whizz kid  guitarist Not older than 20 Not worse looking than Johnny Thunders'  Sex Pistols Melody Maker  ad 1976

'Steve used to copy all Johnny Thunders moves ..he used to practise them.' Glen Matlock Punk77 interview 2001

'I was trying to do with the Sex Pistols what I had failed with the New York Dolls' Malcolm McLaren 'Please Kill Me'

Syl Sylvain..'Malcolm...he always wanted me to come over and start a group called the Sex Pistols' Search & Destroy #8

'It was a stupid idea of mine...no way Hell or Syl would have fit in with the Pistols. Hell and Syl had years on the Pistols...the Pistols were incredibly naieve.' Malcolm McLaren 'Please Kill Me'