What were your
influences?
One has to remember that at the very beginning of '76 there were no UK
Punk records to listen to. If you wanted a taste of the music you had to
go to a gig to hear it live, which Jesse and I did when we had time, and
saw bands such as The Damned and Slaughter & The Dogs do some of their
first performances. Their dynamic drive and energy was refreshing and
exciting compared to the tired old blues and self indulgent superstar rock
scene that dominated the market at the time. To answer your question, the
early Punk bands who were forming and gigging at the start of '76.
As far as any recording artists go, we
had to search around. Bands such as The Ramones, MC5, Velvet Underground
and Bowies's Spiders were all influential, as well as some Iggy and some
numbers by the New York Dolls and Wayne County. It was a case of finding
material that had some cut and thrust and didn't rely on long drawn out
guitar solos. Later on most UK Punk recordings were in our collections,
including of course Never Mind The Bollocks. Del, Jesse and I also got
into Television's arty debut album Marquee Moon: a unique sound with some
original lyrics. I've always had a thing for Talking Heads as well, who
the Wasps supported at the Rock Garden, but I wasn't impressed with their
performance that night.
Previous bands and what sort of
music did you play?
First band was Trance which I
joined when I was thirteen and was formed by Johnny Rich who I knew from
school in the Eastend; though he was a couple of years older and had been
playing for longer -everyday since he was seven. We were good fro
our ages and experimented and matured as we went along. I then played in a
variety of progressive/underground bands and became an integral part of
Lady June's Elysium, writing and arranging some numbers. June's title was
fro real. She was part of an arty in-crowd, with friends such as Brian Eno
and Kevin Ayres. Her debut album had perforated sleeve-notes for roaches.
her Chelsea flat was always full of smoke that her cat was permanently
stoned with a contented and laid-back glazed stare to its eyes. We
disbanded after some personnel changes and problems.
How, where and when
did The Wasps come to be formed?
I teamed up with Johnny again - a fantastic drummer - with Del May at the
beginning of '76. Shortly after , we met Jesse Lynn-Dean, who possesses a
huge talent for writing excellent lyrics, and things seemed to click into
place. It wasn't long before we were gigging as The Wasps. Apart from
Jesse (a North Londoner), we were all living on the East-side of the
capital at the time. Johnny knew Del from his last two bands and was one
one of the most creative guitarists I'd come across. Young Gary Wellman
was originally our soundman and beautifully stepped into Del's Shoes when
he left after the Shrewsbury gig.
When did you first
become aware of punk and what bands did you rate or not?
As far as there being anyone we didn't rate, I can't recall. It was an
exciting time and it wasn't about being measured by the Old Wave
yardstick. You might hear a band that had only been learning to play for a
few months, but it didn't matter as their enthusiasm made up for any lack
of musicianship. Sometimes it was just about having fun and allowing the
atmosphere of a Punk concert to get you in the right frame of mind.
You released a
classic first single. What are your memories of this and how well did it
do?
'Teenage Treats' is a great number and received rave reviews, getting in
and out of the New Wave charts for the next couple of years. I think it
reached something like No3. I love Jesse's lyrics: 'Slashed red lips and a
little bit green, what would you expect from a girl of sixteen?' I had to
be careful that my girlfriend's parents didn't listen too closely, as she
was also sixteen and still at school like the girl in the song. A case of
life imitating art, imitating life! The B-Side, 'She Made Magic' is an
excellent slice of Wasps history. We sometimes finished gigs with it and
there wasn't an act who could easily follow on from it, including bands
like The Police who we jointly topped the bill with at the Music Machine
in Camden (later renamed The Venue). We actually recorded three numbers at
Pathway that day, as weren't sure whether 'Treats' or 'Free Country' would
be the A-Side. On reflection, I think we should have done a three
track debut record.
What are your
memories of playing The Roxy club. What was the audience and atmosphere
like?...cliquey? How did they react to you there? I believe Jenny was
written about a punkette from the Roxy?
I always thought the Roxy was one of the best venues. The Wasps always
attracted a good crowd there and went down a bomb. The audience always got
their moneys worth, as there were usually two support acts, then we would
headline. It was relatively small - compared to the Vortex or Music
Machine -compact, hot and sweaty, but I liked it! And no, it wasn't a
cliquey audience; these were real Punks from tough working-class
backgrounds, just as we were, You'll have to ask Jesse about
'Jenny', I can't recall where he came across her.
Was there
camaraderie between bands or where they were distant to each other? How
did they treat you?
Most bands don't have a lot of time to stand around and talk to each
other. There were some acts who supported us more than once who we got to
know a bit more than others, but we didn't exactly hang out together.
There were of course some displays of ego. One bass player snubbed us
before supporting us at the Roxy, but then he had to be nice when his 'E'
strings broke, as he didn't have a spare and I did! I'm pleased to say
that The Wasps didn't play those games and generally most people we met
were ok. The Clash turned up one night at the Roxy and were cool. The
Pistols sent a telegram sending anarchic wishes for a gig they couldn't
attend. We played alongside Third World for a few gigs. They were really
nice guys and I liked their music. I used to go to a lot of Dub clubs. Me
and another punk, Nixx, from South London, often frequented underground
black clubs around that period - there were some incredible bass lines
going down. Dub and punk were both seen as part of an alternative movement
at that time. We always got the DJ to play Dub tracks at our gigs, which
anyone who saw us headlining will recall.
How important was
fashion to punk?
Extremely! It gave us an identity - a bit of a gang mentality. At first
you had to improvise as there wasn't that much around, or if it was, it
was often expensive. What some people may not realise was that cowboy
boots were popular at one point. They were the only pointed boots you
could buy for a while, as the zip-up ones weren't being made at first.
Dyed black and tucked underneath your trousers you didn't notice they were
cowboy boots. King's Road arcade was often the place to go, but only when
you had money to spare. Some stuff I got from my dad's wardrobe, or
secondhand shops, such as baggy white shirts and jackets with small
lapels. I would then rip them up, splash red paint over them or finish
them off with some safety pins. The Wasps change their look on almost a
monthly basis. Unfortunately we don't have many photos of us in different
guises and if anyone has some we would appreciate copies!
The Vortex album
included two Wasps's songs. There were rumours about the album not being
live. What do you remember about this and how did the venue differ from
the Roxy?
I didn't hear the story about the album being a fake. It's ridiculous, as
there are plenty of people out there who witnessed the event. We were
particularly good that day. I only wish I had a copy of the complete set.
I remember hearing the Vortex version of 'He's Back' which was brilliant,
and Robin Turner (the producer) wanted permission to release 'Something To
Tell You' from the set, as he thought it was outstanding that night. If
anyone knows where the tapes are we would be interested in hearing from
them.
Some of the Vortex
audience seemed a bit more intellectual, others, King's Road fashion
conscious types, or both. I always felt there were a few Punk journalist
and writers knocking around in the audience, documenting what was going
down. A bit of a mixed bag. Some were older than the Roxy audience and
were probably Lou Reed and Iggy followers, who didn't like Jesse's remarks
before 'Waiting For The Man'- listen to the track and you will hear
a 'Fuck off!' in reply; to which Jesse responds goadingly, 'Yeah!'.
How would you
describe The Wasps sound and look then?
We were changing the sound all the time and as mentioned above, our image
went through various transformations. Looking at pictures from our second
gig, we don't look that Punky. Dadomo from Sounds magazine described our
first look as 'street-wise chic'. However, the audience was in a state of
shock. You have to remember that the standard dress-code was denim and
long hair. Just having it cut so it didn't go over your collar was too
much for some audiences. And wearing trousers that didn't have a decent
flair was unthinkable! The mohican style didn't come until later. We went
from being a bit uniform looking - foreshadowing Numan's Tubeway Army look
- to arty, out and out shocking, to tongue in cheek pin-stripes. All of
which was enormous fun at the time.
With he change of
image often went a change of style. As more bands came to the fore Punk
music started to find more of an identity. We went through stages of being
more like Spiders and Velvet Underground influenced, to more Clash and
Pistols, and eventually found our own sound, which was partly created by
the band consisting of three musicians -drums, bass and guitar- with Jesse
on vocals. It meant making the rhythm section more busy to fill the sound.
Jesse's singing also added tremendous dynamics. Other bands, such as The
Stranglers, had an organist or second guitarist, but, like the Pistols and
Jam, we did it with less; although we often dubbed guitar when doing
studio recordings.
How did you come to
record the John Peel session and what are your memories of that? It's a
superb session.
We were asked to do it on the strength of the first single. We enjoyed the
set, which Peel and Alan Freeman played several times and gave rave
reviews. Though one technician seemed a bit hesitant about allowing
a Punk band into their studios and got slightly snooty about us touching
stuff set-up for a classical session the next day. We just ignored him and
got on with what we were there for - to play some classic and memorable UK
Punk.
What changes were
happening between'77-78'? Did The Wasps want to get away from the Punk
scene?
Punk had spread more widely. Audiences outside London were getting more
into it. At the same time, the scene was changing. London punks had got
over the spitting and pogoing stage and were looking for something more
sophisticated. Bands from the States such as Blondie, Talking Heads and
Television, started to appear and gave the scene a different feel and
influence. It wasn't a case of us wanting to get away from our Punk roots,
but looking for ways to experiment and see where our creativity would take
us.
When did Dadomo
come on board as manager? Was the stolen tapes story a scam?
I don't know where this came from. He was never our manager., but liked
the band from the start. Only later did we approach him to handle some of
our press releases. But this was just for a short time. We did lose some
recordings. Whether this was just bad luck or carelessness, or they were
actually stolen, we'll never really know. They've never surfaced on a
bootleg or a pirate.
You clearly had a
bit more than other bands. How did your deal with RCA come about? In
hindsight was it a good one? Were any other majors interested?
There were always record companies interested in The Wasps. Virgin was in
the offing for some time, but got pipped at the post by RCA. unfortunately
the guy who signed us left and there was no glory in it for the next
person to promote The Wasps. It should have been the turning point, but
went sour due to various parties getting greedy and wanting a slice of the
band for themselves. A few lawsuits later and the band was in shreds.
The image also
changed drastically, including your equipment. You were also rehearsing
off the road for 7 months. Was this a good move and whose idea was it?
The suits were just for a video that we did, consisting of 'Angelica',
'J-J-Jenny' and 'Something To Tell You'. We were just experimenting. Yes
new equipment was bought. We'd been out on the road with a lot of gear
that was getting worn out and it was nice to have some new Marshalls. We
got them made in red with black fronts and had six four-by-twelves and
amps either side, which created an impressive backdrop.
No it wasn't a good
idea to come off the road. We were building our fan base up, but there
were one or two incidents that were more than just cause for concern. The
death of a member of your audience is not something anyone can take
lightly. We concentrated on new material, and it was refreshing to have
some time out and work this way, instead of trying to do it on the road
all the time. But things did start to go wrong. What we need was someone
who could handle the band's day-to-day problems and keep us focussed. Even
a good road manager wouldn't have gone amiss -something we never had!
Why did the band
wait until '79 to release another single?
It was not for want of trying! We went through a period of changing
managers about every six months. None seemed to be able to close a deal
properly. I don't want to slag anyone off, but there are some exasperating
stories the band could tell about being mismanaged. There was of course
the Vortex single which came out in late'77. RCA I've already mentioned.
As for 'Rubber Cars', I thought it was a great number. It sold more
records in one week than any other RCA single and was set for a number one
slot. I thought Gary, John and I did some good work on it, but don't know
what possessed RCA to credit other musicians with the recording. No one
around seemed to be doing the right thing and a split was inevitable.
At some stage the
whole bands except Jesse leaves? Another Peel session is recorded with
only Jesse as an original member. What leads to this? The second Peel
session is pretty good isn't it?
One minute you are slagging off 'Rubber Cars' and 'This Time' (the
'B'-Side) and now you are saying that they are good, as they were done on
the second Peel session. I didn't think they were done as well as Gary,
Johnny and I could do them. We had been together for a long time creating
The Wasps' sound. The new guys gave it a good shot, but to my ears it
wasn't The Wasps. I think deep down Jesse realised this as well and was
why he didn't run that far with the new line up.
What was the
reaction to you in different parts of the country?
Different places attracted different audiences. Chiselhurst Caves housed a
well spoken, fashion conscious punk, whereas Shrewsbury Civic Centre was
like going to war. The local casualty department was full the night we
played, and we were banned from playing anywhere near there again.
What was the
gobbing and violence like at gigs?
Strangely enough we didn't encounter it much in the London clubs. People
were probably wondering about how Jesse would respond, as he was not
adverse to throwing his mike stand into the audience at times, which could
have easily knocked any unsuspecting Punk spark out. It was only at
Shrewsbury where we experienced it on a grand scale. It seems surreal to look
back at it now. It was like playing inside a Hollywood Western saloon
brawl. Bodies were literally flying everywhere - even from the top
balcony.
Best moments/worst
moments?
I enjoyed being in a band as creative as The Wasps. I particularly
like the creative process that goes into working on new numbers. The
beginning was an exciting and fresh time. The ending was a time of
disappointment.
What did you get up
to after leaving The Wasps
I hung up my bass for some time and went on to do graphics at The London
College Of Printing. Later I had my own design business in London
Docklands. I also did a degree in Religious Studies and a post graduate
certificate in education at King's College London. I've taught in
secondary schools, given lectures on transpersonal growth, run various
courses and written numerous articles on spiritual matters 'East and
West'. UI recently co-wrote two popular development manuals - 'Tune in to
your Spiritual Potential' and '21 Steps to Reach your Spirit' - with
renowned medium Glyn Edwards (published by Foulsham). I'm currently
working on a third book with close friend and respected yoga teacher
Swami Dharmananada Saraswati, who gave me the name Santoshan which I write
under.
Music wise, I
founded a New Age group called Sadhana, who did some recording in the
90's. Currently, there looks like a possibility of something happening
with Jesse and Johnny again. I'm also getting together with a
guitarist and a Polish electronics wizard with some world music
connections and going to try something a little different. Some of this
may sound a bit 'unPunky', but I still advocate not accepting much of the
conditioning of Western Society.
Finally, Looking
back, what did Punk achieve and what was The Wasps part in it?
Punk managed to shake up what had become a tired old music scene. You have
to remember that unless you had three truck loads of a quadraphonic PA
system and a huge light show you wouldn't get a look in. Consequently,
only established bands could fulfil this criteria. Punk changed that and
put music back in the hands of the people, instead of the so-called 'supergroups'.
Long self indulgent wailing guitar solos became a thing of the past. In
their place was put fresh dynamic songs that woke you up instead of
sending you to sleep.
The Wasps, I'm
pleased to say, helped to bring about some of this change in attitude and
allowed audiences to go back and appreciate good UK Rock in a more raw and
direct form. There are many band s around these days who look or sound not
that different from The Wasps, and a cover of 'Can't Wait For '78' has
recently been released. We always seem to be cropping up on one
compilation or another - '30 Punk Classics' being the most recent
(released in 2002). Its hard to judge to what extent we have made an
impact, but collectively with other pioneers of UK Punk our influence is
still very much alive today.
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