Cherry & Sting at the Roxy Club 1977 |
How did you acquire the Police as backing band and what were
they like to work with?
Miles Copeland had come to see me perform at a NYC club. My
bass player at the time was actually drunk that night and fell
off the stage at one point. Miles loved us. He said that if I
could make it to London … and let me get this clear, because it
has always been reported wrongly … MILES DID NOT PAY TO BRING US
TO THE UK. RATHER, I SOLD EVERYTHING I HAD IN ONE AFTERNOON,
MOST OF IT FOR A FRACTION OF WHAT IT WAS WORTH, MUCH OF IT
STOLEN DURING THE SALE. I BOUGHT THE PLANE TICKETS FOR MYSELF,
MY BOYFRIEND/GUITARIST, MY KEYBOARD PLAYER AND MY FRIEND MACS.
MILES DID NOT PUT UP A PENNY TO GET US THERE, NOT FOR A HOTEL OR
ANYTHING ELSE. Anyway, he said that if I brought these two
musicians, he could hook me up with a bass player and drummer in
the UK and that they would also be my opening act (along with
Henry Padovani, their guitarist at the time) and also play for
me. They were professional and cocky. Henry was my favorite.
He was really cool. He was the only one of them who came
to my apartment for dinners with his girlfriend and so forth,
the only one of them I hung out with outside of the gigs.
They did the driving and loading in and out and played their
sets and mine. They took stupid drugs, like cough medicine
and antihistamines, things to make them up and down. They
slept on floors with us and did their job. |
I paid them each 10 pounds per night.
Often, there wasn't enough money for my own band and me to make
10 pounds a night. We lived mostly on beer and potato chips. There were fabulous moments, like one morning when we woke up on
a sheep farm with a roaring fire and a French toast breakfast
and hot coffee … and the time we all went to Stonehenge and just
stood there silently with the wind whistling in our ears.
I
sacrificed all of my worldly possessions to get my boys and myself over
there, but behind my back Stuart and Sting were trying to get my
boyfriend/guitarist, Louis, to leave my band and join them … and I was
pregnant at the time on top of it all. I never knew about this until I
read Andy Summers book. When I did, I cried my eyes out. How could
they have been so heartless, so sneaky, so cruel? How could I have been
so trusting, so naïve, so unaware of their intentions? And Sting is
supposed to be this great humanitarian. How about having respect for
the person who got them their first gigs? Without me, they might never
have been able to get their band launched, or ever heard by the public.
I am very hurt over this. No wonder they were never my friends. They
were hiding something from me. Maybe they felt guilty, though I doubt
it. Obviously, they are like so many people in show biz, they will step
on anyone to get what they want, break anyone's heart and forget about
anyone else's life in order to climb their way to stardom. I used to
have mostly good memories of them and was proud that I was so
instrumental in the outcome of their lives and their music. But since I
learned of what they were trying to do to me (Louie, bless him, never
told on them), it has unfortunately wiped away all of the good memories.
 |
Actually the early Police tracks when Henry was with them were
the most punky. Then they got into the more kind of soft or
poppy-reggae sound. I think the punks probably liked them
better at the beginning, but probably liked the later hits a lot
less. Henry was the most popular with the audiences, especially
the girls. He had the punkiest attitude and was very sexy. HA
HA, there I go again -- thinking that punk and sexy and go hand
in hand, silly me! But audiences are always hard on the opening
act, because they are usually there for the headliner. I think
they actually went down pretty well after the first few gigs we
all did together. |
Do you
remember anything about the Roxy - atmosphere, convivial surroundings,
people and fans? Or was it a total dive!
I remember thinking it was a fire hazard, especially the backstage
area. We would have been the last to get out of the place. But the
atmosphere was electric. It was one of those great moments in musical
history, very high energy, very exciting. Even out on the street in
front of the club, it was electric. And the kids (they were mostly
younger than me and seemed quite innocent, despite the hard-edged
fashions they wore) were quite friendly. I remember going there the
night we arrived in London, just as audience. I got a kick out of the
Slits, especially Ari Up. We all went to a coffee shop together. I was
very attracted to her, even though I am not a lesbian. Playing there
was a huge rush. I can't even remember that though, the moment was so
high and so was I.
What was the reaction of the crowd to you?
Great. They did their pogoing and spitting and all of that. We seemed
to go down pretty well.
 You
were very blatantly sexual with a lick me t shirt and the Roxy posters
with you mouthing a vibrator!!!
Well, that was drawn in. It was actually a microphone in my hand, but
they made it into a vibrator. I had no control over that, but I didn't
mind it. I was sexual and I didn't mind being portrayed that
way. I found the whole stance in the UK to be a fraud, a pose, but an
exciting and entertaining pose. They were all sexual too, but they were
pretending they were all political and they decided it wasn't cool to be
sexy. I was probably the most honest of the punks. We were all young,
we had hormones raging, we were sexual, them in their twenties and me in
my thirties, we were all fucking out brains out and getting high. I was
singing about it without any shame. And I was hard rock, punk, pop.
Madonna came along later and did it with disco music and everybody
accepted it. But the disco crowd was more honest about what was going
on in their lives. The punk crowd tried to convince everyone that they
were political. But they were just as high, drunk and sexual as the
disco crowd. By the time I made my second album, I was less high and I
was deeply in love with Louie, so I made a more romantic album. It was
so non-punk … and to my mind that was the punkiest thing one could
do, to be honest to your own life and feelings, despite the fashion of
the moment. Of course the punk crowd hated it and the record
company wasn't happy either, but I was always true to my own individual
thoughts and feelings. I didn't care if I was going against the
grain. In fact, I loved going against the grain.
Up to this point UK punk rock in sound and dress had been more
asexual. Forgive the wording but how did the crowd react to this more
aggressively sexual image?
They criticized me for it, some of the music press more than the
audiences. But like I said, I was just being honest, more honest than
most of them at the time. I couldn't be anything but true to myself.
If they didn't like it, that was their right. I wasn't going to pretend
to be something else.
The
band had a major label but got very little critical acclaim from the UK
press. Why do you think this was?
Well, actually you are wrong about that. I have an incredible amount of
good reviews and press clippings from the major UK newspapers and
magazines … and also from the fanzines and punk magazines and music
magazines like Sounds. It was only the New Musical Express that was
negative about me. There were a couple of writers there who decided
they hated me right from the start. But I have tons of fabulous press
from the UK, Europe and the USA.
You’d played at the legendary US clubs Max’s and CBGB’s. How did the
Roxy compare in terms of a scene, excitement and possibilities?
I never played CBGS's. Hilly, the owner never wanted to book me and I
thought the club was a smelly dump, so I didn't much care. I played
Max's and all of the other NY rock clubs that were around at the time.
The Roxy wasn't much different than any of the NY clubs I played. It
was just special because it all happened so fast, the height of the
London punk scene and the Roxy … it all happened at once and it all
vanished so quickly. It makes it all seem that much more special. The
audiences in the NY clubs were more open. All of the bands were doing
pop, rock, not just punk. I mean, some of us came from a theatre
background and we did more theatrical shows, more fun shows. Girls like
Debbie Harry and me, we would wear wedding dresses, girl scout uniforms,
tiaras, whatever. We wore Vegas showgirl make-up and hairstyles and
painted our nails red and wore high heels and push-up bras. We did some
songs that had comedic, tongue-in-cheek content. We kind of laughed at
ourselves, didn't take ourselves so seriously. We did countryish tunes,
ballads and poetry and used props and so forth. In the UK at that time,
it was all one style, punk. It was all supposed to be taken seriously.
But come on, it was only rock & roll after all! I think the New York
scene was more open, more varied, more fun … but the punk scene in
London, combined with Malcolm McLaren and Vivien Westwood's fashions and
the music press and the poverty and drugs (heroin and pills were more
prominent in London, while pot and speed was more popular in NY) all
came together more cohesively, more narrow focused so to speak and made
for a short-lived but high level of excitement in the UK at that time.
What
do you think the American bands brought i.e. professionalism etc. You
guys had been going longer and were a lot more tighter and rock’n’roll
than the more wham bam UK bands. Were you surprised by the kids forming
bands overnight and sounding shambolic? Did you think UK punk was a
cheap imitation of the Ramones?
No, not really. I loved it for what it was, even if it was only a
theatrical pose. I thought it was funny, amusing, brave, gutsy,
experimental. I came from experimental theatre, so I liked the kind of
improvisational nature of the punk scene. But it didn't hold my
interest for very long, because, like I said, the focus was so narrow …
and it really really lacked a sense of humor. In NY we had a sense of
humor about what we were doing. Look at the NY Dolls! When I played
rock & roll n NY, it was basically an expansion of the poetry/comedy act
I had already done in cabarets. There was still a lot of humor,
satirical humor to it. I had already worked in many facets of show biz
and the music biz and I was basically doing a send-up of it all, at
least with some of my songs.
Sting, Henry & Stewart |
Having been on the music scene since the early seventies how
did you feel starting all over again at virtually the bottom
again in a small club like the Roxy or did you pick up on the
vibe that something exciting musically was happening again and
feed off it?
Basically, I was learning on the job and I saw every gig as a
learning experience. It wasn't until after the Roxy that I got
to play big festivals and fabulous clubs in Paris and
Stockholm. I wasn't starting over again, I was still
starting as far as I was concerned. I was still learning to
sing, write, perform, etc. I had done theatre, cabaret and rock
in NY. In the UK, I was just doing the rock part, but I was
trying to get better at it. I was learning in public, which
means sometimes I could be great and sometimes I could be awful,
but I was learning and growing as far as being a rock
singer/writer/performer, so I was very happy for the opportunity
to learn and grow. The Roxy was small, but it was very
important at that moment in time and I was thrilled to be booked
there and I am still thrilled that I was part of it all. Too
bad the knowledge of what Stuart and Sting were doing behind my
back has kind of tainted my memories of it now. |
What
did you make of the UK punk rock scene fashion and attitude?
I thought it was mostly just that, fashion and attitude. I didn't buy
the political bit. I didn't go out and spend money on pants with chains
and straps or wear razor blades, but I liked that I could get away with
wearing underpants and a t-shirt or a ratty old sweater and tights. I
like that it wasn't all about having a stylist and wearing expensive
designer fashions, like it's become these days. I liked that it was
stripped-down and funky and realistic. We didn't make much money and so
we didn't have money to spend on clothes. For me, it was all about the
hair and make-up -- cheap tricks I called it. I mean for a few dollars
worth of hair color and make-up, I could feel I had a look that was
stage-worthy, show bizzy. We were travelling in a van and had to pull
things from the bottom of our bags and put them on and somehow shine, no
wardrobe person, no stylist … and we did it. And it was practical and
fun. And to act like a punk, well that was fun too. The kind of hard
rock songs I was doing needed a tough attitude and so I could have it.
And then I could be softer when doing country, sultry when doing blues
and sweet when doing ballads. Of course, the crowd in the UK probably
liked the hard rock tunes and punk pose the best.
What bands/ personalities at the time did you like and dislike and
for what reasons? C’mon dish the dirt!
I loved Phil Lynott and Thin Lizzy and Van Morrison was always and still
is my all-time favorite. I remember seeing XTC for the first time and
really loving them … Generation X, because Billy Idol was always so
cute and sweet. The Slits, whom I mentioned, they were so raw and they
were girls doing it, so I loved that. I liked Blondie, because I knew
them from the states and had done a play with them in New York. I loved
Elvis Costello's first album and The Sex Pistols, of course. Hearing
the Sex Pistols' "Anarchy For The UK" is what got me to go to London in
the first place. I was never into Television or Patti Smith, though I
had done a play with Patti too. She just wasn't very friendly towards
me, ever. And I thought they were all very pretentious. I liked The
Clash and I loved The Pretenders and Kate Bush. Jayne Country, Johnny
Thunders and the Heartbreakers, Levi and the Rockats -- they were all
friends and I liked them a lot. Of course, I also still loved tons of
jazz, reggae, blues, folk, Irish, Hawaiian, new age and classical
artists too. I remember how often we all listened to the Steve Reich
tape I had brought to England when we were in the van on the road with
the Police. No real dirt to dish on any of them. I didn't like seeing
them picking up girls when I knew their wives and girlfriends, but I
kept my mouth shut about it.
While in
a live environment I can see the Cherry Vanilla working with songs
speeded up and the association with the current punk scene I can also
see it in hindsight as a double edged sword. Because the album really
shares nothing or very little in common with Punk.
As I said
earlier, I believe that going out there and doing the music you want to
do is the punkiest thing one can do. Not to feel that the songs could
only have three chords and could only be played by inept musicians.
Think about it. Was Blondie's music punk, was Television's, was Elvis
Costello's or Ian Dury's? I never gave myself the label. I never
wanted to do only one type of music. l was doing rock & roll and pop
music and all that it encompasses. I had written a track called "The
Punk," which is actually very much a pop song which says simply "I wanna
rock & roll, I wanna be a punk." I was a punk in life. I did what I
wanted, broke rules, was as bad as the boys and I was rocking' and
rollin.' And just like country, folk, jazz, reggae had been included in
the rock & roll umbrella earlier, at the time of punk much pop and all
of the elements of rock & roll were included under that umbrella for
many artists and bands. I was invited there and I went there. It was
punk time, so they called me punk. My song "The Punk" was my post
popular song, so the association was made. If you are into separating
out all of the songs of the time that weren't in the category you want
to term "punk," then you can do that. And there are many. I did what I
did and I did it there and then and I'm glad I did. Call it whatever
you like. Do What Thou Wilt Shall be the Whole of the Law. That's punk,
as far as I'm concerned.
How well did your records sell?
Not well at all. "Liverpool" did well in Holland, the "Bad Girl" album
too. But there was a major problem. They weren't in the stores. Miles
Copeland tried to get RCA to sell him a bunch, so he could get them into
the punk record shops, because those shops only ever took a couple of
copies of each record at the time and RCA had a minimum order rule --
but they wouldn't sell them to Miles and so the hot little punk record
shops couldn't even stock it, because they couldn't meet RCA's minimum
numbers. And forget about the USA, they completely screwed me there,
screwed me out of having Robert Stigwood release "The Punk" and never
released my records at all in the States. So how could we sell records
when they weren't even for sale? In Holland they managed to get them
into the shops and sell them, but for the most part, they weren't
available. So, who knows? By the time of the second album, I knew they
were not even going to try to push them. I even tried to get out of the
RCA deal before we ever recorded the second album, but they wouldn't let
me go. That made me even more determined to do the offbeat kind of
album that "Venus d'Vinyl" was.
When "Bad
Girl" was released I had an A&R man at RCA, Andrew Hoy. He had signed
me and was also the producer of the album, therefore he cared about me
and had something to prove. An artist needs that at a label, someone
who made the choice and then fights for the artist in order to prove
they were right. So Andrew fought for some ads. I would not use the
word "heavily" to describe the ads they placed that I could count on one
hand. However, they did buy a few. Problem is that Andrew Hoy left RCA
to go to Polydor with Vangelis and I was left without an A&R man who had
anything to prove. So any promotion that might have been fought for at
the beginning, was soon gone. And the main problem, as I said and as
Miles Copeland can confirm, is that the independent record stores where
the new punk singles were selling, were not able to stock my record.
Whether they would have sold or not if they had the, I don't know.
Funny enough, as life turns out, it is Vangelis for whom I now work and
with great satisfaction, because I consider him an artistic genius, both
in his music and his paintings. And Andrew Hoy is still one of my very
best friends. So, all's well that ends well. I was not a genius
musician, songwriter, etc., never claimed to be. I dabbled in so many
sides of show biz in my life. The rock singer was just another little
adventure I wanted to experience, like so many other adventures I have
had.
Did
you find being associated with punk rock helped or hindered the Cherry
Vanilla band?
Sometimes I think if I had stayed in the USA and kept developing my own
sound, style, shows, without any punk label, it might have been a better
move. But I love that I am part of that whole UK punk history now. I
came to realize that I wouldn't have been happy leading the life of a
rock star forever anyway, so I don't know … hindered maybe from a rock
performer career point of view, but helped add to my overall eclectic
legend in the end.
Why did the Cherry Vanilla band split up?
Basically, I got very disheartened with the way the record company
treated me and very tired of the whole punk thing and also tired of
living in the UK and of being in the spotlight. Perhaps I could have
stayed, gotten a manager, another label, more gigs … but I just lost
interest in it all. I still loved show biz, but I wanted to be back on
the other side of it again and explore new aspects of it. Then Louie
and I broke up and that really put an end to the whole band thing,
especially since he was my main co-writer, lead guitarist and musical
director.
Any incidents that stand out?
I suppose playing to a crowd of thousands at an outdoor festival in
Holland and going down really well was a highlight … that and playing
the Paradiso, where I had hung out as a hippie in '69 and never dreamed
I would one day be playing there. And, of course, being one of artists
of the 100 legendary nights at the Roxy … even if I can't remember
anything except how the hell I would get out of there in case of a fire!
Kisses,
Cherry V - February 2007
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